Dancing with the Devil
I've had an "EA is the Devil" category on this blog for years, it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek but there's a real reason it's there too.
Keen just opened up a bucket of worms by making the issue of 'incomplete' MMORPG launches an ethical issue of inflated customer expectations. The problem is, he's pumping EA-Mythic as his example of a company he trusts to deliver on what he'd hold others accountable for.
I probably would have discussed more of the premise, but as it was, I choked on my drink and sprayed my desk in the process.
Needless to say, I don't think EA is the bastion example of ethical behaviour when it comes to customer expectations in the MMORPG market. I also don't think Mythic is a good example of responsible budgets and deadlines for the health of their products, although that perspective is interwoven with their arrival to their EA-Mythic roost.
I'm surprised to hear this from a fellow Peter Molyneux fan, the king of raised expectations. Developers do get excited and hype stuff that they want to get into the game, and much of that stuff doesn't make it in time, or doesn't work as planned. Passion for your game just comes out that way. This is especially true with the complexities involved in MMORPGs.
I think the implication that there's an intentional bait-and-switch is absurd. There's no sinister attempt to hijack expectations. Wishful thinking perhaps. From evidence Funcom seems almost too honest about their shortcomings.
I still see this as more of a Craft than purely a business. I'm more often disappointed when it's treated as the later.
Jul 6, 2008 8:25am
That Keen is so controversial. Gotta run his mouth.
Just wait until the EA monster rears it's head.
Of course I keep reading EA has changed. But, I am guaranteed they will somehow touch WAR though and do something different.
Keen is in dream land to think what he see's now in beta is what WILL release.
Cheers and thank you for persevering in the AoC camp.
I hope Funcom starts to learn and make some better choices fast!
Jul 6, 2008 6:51pm
I still don't see it as WAR versus AoC. I think our corporate culture of no-second-place market share affects people's attitudes toward these games and it's always seen as this versus that.
Ultimately, I play the MMORPG where I'm having the most fun in and where my friends are. Whichever one is most popular overall doesn't affect me as much as it does other people. I understand that picking the most popular game also means the most populated, that matters to many.
If Funcom didn't grab enough initial sales, then I would have worried a little, but still played.
And yeah, I think Keen does like to hit the horse in the mouth sometimes. It gets people thinking tho, so I appreciate it even when I don't agree.
Jul 6, 2008 8:19pm
I'm not sure how you inferred that I was pumping EA Mythic as an example of a company that will deliver on what I expect. If you will reread my blog post you'll not find a single mention or even reference to EA Mythic or Warhammer Online.
The first time I mentioned EA Mythic or WAR was in an example of a game that I speak highly of before it is release; and even then I only referenced the fact that I am speaking highly of what I have seen in hands-on demos and officially released information. I also mention that if WAR turns out differently from what they have shown/advertised then I will be the first to call a spade a spade (In other words I will be the first to come right out and call them on their B.S.)
The only other time I mention WAR is in response to a comment when I say: "If WAR were to release without Keep sieges or a PvP ranking system I would not buy the game. I don’t have time to buy games and wait for them to be developed while I’m playing and waiting."
I'm holding Mythic and WAR accountable just like I am every other company and game. This blog entry wasn't even supposed to garner any WAR bias. I came up with the idea for this blog post while driving home from a meeting. Getting stuck in traffic does wonders for blog post ideas.
Jul 6, 2008 9:09pm
Keen, I do think you'll hold WAR accountable if it doesn't meet your standards, I believe you're consistent there. But the difference for me is that Mythic already raises accountability issues even prior to release.
So the bias, to me, is that you stated you do not care about deadlines and budgets, that they're excluded from your measure of accountability. That seemed highly selective to me in favour of Mythic's current position, so whether you nodded it in favour of them consciously or subconsciously, that's my tinted-glasses take on it. If I'm being unfair to you or Mythic, then I'll accept that criticism.
You had a point to make about unfinished games and the accountability issue overshadowed, but it was still on-topic, I'm sorry if it diminished your point at all. You did not mention WAR or Mythic in your initial post, but I did notice that it was implicit in your followup comments even if not mentioned by name.
The flipside of this is that I didn't just write a post to call you out, it's just a bit of an excuse to bring up the EA issue, which had died down but is still very relevant.
Jul 6, 2008 9:55pm
Is that what we are stuck with? To get a MMORPG that isn't a mess at launch does it have to come from EA?
That would make me a sad panda.
Jul 6, 2008 10:34pm
Definitely do not read into what I said. Just take it at face value. Budgets and deadlines are important, but they do not matter to ME at all when it comes to a game being complete.
I really do believe that games should only be released when they are in a state of being "done". That's different for every game, but you can't deny that those of us who have been playing these games for a while can tell the difference between a game that was rushed out and a game that was developed until it reached that sweet spot.
Deadlines and budgets be damned. If a game can not reach that state of being "done" then I REALLY don't want to play it. That's my opinion. It won't change anything. Companies will still be forced by deadlines and budgets will still suffocate development.
Investors, publishers, producers, developers or whoever is in charge of the deadline and budgeting seriously need to understand the ramifications of releasing an unfinished game. It shouldn't be only the "big corporations" with the vaults of $$$ that are capable of this. The value of a "finished" game far outweighs the cost of production.
Jul 7, 2008 1:45am
As a gamer, I value innovation above polish.
As I mentioned above, I adore all of Peter Molyneux's games. Every one of them has been buggy and had features that didn't work as well as expected, but pound for pound I get more entertainment from them.
I think the masses are suckers for pretty and polished, which ride on the backs of innovation. Putting the two together is rare.
Now Funcom isn't Lionhead, but they created a combat system that's above what I thought would be possible in an MMORPG and I will shower accolades on them for that alone, it's just so much fun. It was a huge risk for them and took up much of their development, they've said as much with the multiple times they reworked it.
I would not trade that for polish. I could just resubscribe with WoW, but I won't.
They also tried to come up with this whole City and Siege thing and obviously bit off more than they could chew. You're saying they should have not bothered because it didn't work, but I'm saying I'd rather play it warts and all than for them to have accepted a smaller feature-set just to appease people who overhyped themselves and took development excitement as promises.
Or worse, delayed.
That would have left me with no game to play at all. I'm one of the guys that said "release it already, I'll take the bugs, let me play". =P
Personally I think we've got too few good MMORPGs to choose from, there's already too much of an entry barrier to suggest throwing another year or two and tens of millions on the development cycle. Funcom has made a decent MMORPG for $24 million and they've kept enough budget in reserves to support their game as they add to it. That to me, is exactly what I ask of an MMORPG.
I'm looking at the alternatives and I like those less.
Jul 10, 2008 10:01am
I'm going have to agree with Rog on this one that I prefer innovation over polish. I differ greatly though in that the type of innovation Funcom delivered on, namely the combat, is not the type of innovation I am looking for in an MMO. It sounded great but for me worsened PvP experiences that were there, which is what I am now looking for after burning out a lot of my PvE ambition in EQ years ago. So, looking forward to the innovations in WAR and hoping all the systems work (Sieges in AoC do not) and am not worried about it being polished.
Jul 11, 2008 12:40pm
And recent news turns this whole thing on its head:
http://www.keenandgraev.com/?p=1123
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